Pursuing Sol Rising with Amanda and Ginny

Ginny is a wife, Mom of two beautiful kids, co-host on the podcast SOL RISING, and the founder and owner of THE FLIPPIN’ PHOENIX FURNITURE REHAB company. Her passion for soul searching, healing, and heart connection with other human souls is what sets her spirit on fire in this beautiful chapter of life. With life adventures spanning from chasing dreams in Hollywood in her 20’s, to struggling with addiction, to 18 years of a sales career in a corporate world and choosing to leave it, she believes that no matter the differences we may have with one another, we have FAR more in common… and she is determined to find that common ground with everyone that she can. 

A native New Yorker turned Coloradan, Amanda McKoy Flanagan blends street smarts with tree hugging for a pragmatic, yet soulful, approach to loving and losing; she is no stranger to either. Co-founder of the 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, Castle Rock Clubhouse, a recovery clubhouse that serves as meeting space for various twelve-step programs, Amanda is passionate about sobriety, meditation, and spirituality. Through her commitment to climate action, she holds the spirit of loving-kindness, faithful perseverance, and compassionate service in high regard. A lover of horses, drumming, running, vegan eating, and dancing, she also enjoys singing with abandon to loud rock music. Amanda holds a bachelor’s degree from the State University of New York at Albany in English and journalism and a master’s degree in social work from Stony Brook University, New York. Nevertheless, life has been her greatest teacher by far. She lives in Castle Rock, Colorado, with her family and pup, Dolly.

Transcript

🎶 Podcast Intro: Welcome to the pursuing uncomfortable podcast, where we give you the encouragement you need to lean into the uncomfortable stuff life puts in front of you, so you can love your life. If you are ready to overcome all the yuck that keeps you up at night, you're in the right place. I am your host, Melissa Ebken let's get going. 🎶

🎶 Episode Intro:  When it comes to leaning into the difficult stuff and overcoming it, my guests, Amanda and Jenny know what they're talking about. I'm so pleased to welcome them to the podcast today.  And you're going to really enjoy their stories. Learn how riding horses and refinishing furniture can turn a life around.  They, too, have a book and a podcast; the podcast is called Sol Rising, and help people to find that space in their spirits and in their lives to be the best they can be.  🎶

Episode:  
Melissa Ebken  0:00  
Ginny and Amanda, welcome to the Pursuing Uncomfortable Podcast. How are you guys?

Amanda  0:07  
Doing great. I'm great. I'm having a great day. What about you, Ginny? 

Ginny  0:11  
I am doing really well. Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited to be here with you.

Melissa Ebken  0:15  
Ginny, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. And then Amanda, introduce yourself and let us know what you guys do, what you're up to.

Amanda  0:25  
If you want to go first? 

Ginny  0:27  
I can. So my name is Ginny Oliva Smith, and I am a co host on a podcast called Soul Rising with Amanda. I also recently just started my own business in rehabbing furniture. I have a company called The Flippin Phoenix Furniture Rehab, where I take still very well built and beautiful pieces that are headed for a landfill and I upcycle them and find new homes for them. So that's part of what we do also, while being involved in some organizations, being able to donate pieces to people in need, working with the a battered women's shelter called Gateway here in Denver, and I've been providing pieces to the company for them as well. So that's those are the things. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm enjoying summer. This is the first summer that my kids have, like had me home in like years and years their whole life. So it's pretty awesome. 

Melissa Ebken  1:30  
That sounds great. And my Amanda, what do you do?

Amanda  1:35  
So I am Ginny's co host and the Soul Rising Podcast. We started that back in March and we love we love it. We're having so much fun. It I think it's my favorite, my favorite part of like, this entire endeavor that I've embarked on with no real destination. I did write a book, my book came out in May. It's called Trust Yourself To Be All In. So I'm an author. I do have a blog. So author, blogger, podcaster. I'm also a mom. I'm also very active in my recovery community. I've been sober a number of years, I co founded a nonprofit called Castle Rock Clubhouse. It's a recovery space, not not a recovery center. It's just a space where we provide meeting space for other 12 Step groups. I'm very heavy into meditation spirituality. I love to I'm a runner, I like to run, very addictive I was thinking about you the other day when she like, tell me about this runner's high you get because I don't have that. I would love that. Because I get like nowhere near any kind of runner's high. I just stop. I'm like, nevermind, I'm done. Yes.

Melissa Ebken  2:45  
It's a lie.

Amanda  2:50  
Tell me what, tell me. No, just like I said, to just keep running a little further. It's also it's also where I get some time by myself, you know, because I am a mom. And it's summertime and very, you know, kids are demanding and, and I also play the drums, I started taking drum lessons about a year and a half ago, my family is very musical. And my husband plays guitar and my daughter, and she's 11, she still lead singer and guitarist in her little Kid Rock Band, like, amazing. My daughter and my other daughter plays flute, she dances. So yeah, that's a little bit about me. That's what I like to do and what I'm venturing on in this next chapter of my life.

Melissa Ebken  3:29  
So tell us how you all began working together and doing the podcast together, all of the obstacles you've overcome, you know, simple little question.

Amanda  3:40  
Just the simple things. Yeah. Well, there's a few ways that we know each other. I also I had six years, sober in December of this year. So we know each other in a few different ways. We also, we've always gone to the same church too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we became friends in a few different ways. And it was just kind of one of those things where it felt more like family than then friends, for sure. Both of us being in recovery, both of us kind of just on that spiritual hunt, right, that we're all trying to just evolve and become the best versions of ourselves and being able to connect, start connecting with people, you're like, oh, there's other people that are working on this for themselves as well. That's kind of how that started. I think it was sometime during COVID, when we had been having a conversation, Amanda and I would just talk about a lot of what was happening in general, which the most obvious thing at that time was just the amount of division that was occurring everywhere. And just this super intense, emotionally charged time of people just being divided. Like we'd never known before. We were talking we would talk a lot about that. You know, like, what is this and what's it going to take and how are people or just you have families who are torn apart over like political views on what is happening, you know, and questioning that and I always I was I told her I was like, yeah, a podcast would be amazing. You know, this was one of the times we're hanging out at a coffee shop. Like outdoor no at a we were at Vitality Vitality having lunch I remember Yeah, day. Yeah. In the sun. We're sitting we were allowed to be back together. Yeah, I guess outside six feet apart. And yeah. And Ginny's like, we should just start. We should start a pod. She, she you did one like randomly, yeah. Anchor like, like, look at what I did last night. She was anybody could just do a podcast. So she starts playing it for me. Oh my intro. That was awesome. Crazy. Yeah. So that had been in the back of both of our minds I think for a while. And then I just, you know, got inspired in early 2021 about writing my book and all that. And I was like, hey, Ginny, like, do you want to little bit of time had passed. Yeah, since that conversation and I said, I want to do this podcast. Like, I'm serious about it. Like will you, you know, we want to do together? So yes, let's go. Yeah. And we both have a very similar energy and you know, enthusiasm about, well, a lot of things, but specifically about what Ginny talks about that division and bridging the divide, and really talking about the tough stuff, the uncomfortable stuff that people don't really like to talk about, because it brings up discomfort and humans want comfort, all the time. It feels good. So yeah, so we're both passionate about it. And we just started so it started with like my blogs, actually, because I so after from editing my book, I had pulled out so much extra material that I wasn't going to use, I had written like a 350 page book and whittled it down to like 210, I did not know it was that long. Yeah, it was crazy. So such a good book, by the way, you need to go get it, go get it. Thanks. She's my biggest salesperson, I still say I know, you left sales, but you're still in sales. And so taking some of that material, I had repurposed it into blogs. So how we started, it was like, okay, let's start with this. I'll put out a blog this Friday, and then like the week after, you know, then we'll put the podcast up. So that's sort of how it's been going. Like every other week, I put out a blog on my website, and then we'll follow it up and talk about it on podcast. Sometimes it's not exactly related. Yeah, there'll be tearing off that. Like, I'm not that like, yeah, there's been times where she's like, Ginny, what do you think? You know, what do you think about this? Like, I had done one of the episodes, episodes on the other side? Yeah. Like, what do you look? What do we want to talk about? You know, and so I kind of just came up with the background of that. And we worked that in. So it's been, there's been a few times where, where there's something happening in life, yes, we could be currently in something that's really bringing up challenge or bringing up something that's like, oh, that we're trying to grow through. And it's like, hey, maybe we need to, like, do a show about this. Because if I'm going through it, there's a really good chance somebody else is going through it too. And it is uncomfortable. And I know that it's offered me a chance to grow, you know, but it's like, I don't know that we always get the chance to talk to each other about those times when we're in most discomfort and where these challenging situations are happening. So we've had shows, you know, come from that too. Just life events that might be happening right now.

Melissa Ebken  8:10  
Yeah, well, congratulations to both of you on your sobriety. Its a huge deal. And I wish you both the best. What uncomfortable did you each have to overcome on your way to sobriety? 

Amanda  8:26  
And there is right, so my most uncomfortable happened in sobriety? Which is kind of interesting, because you wouldn't think that would be the hardest part of my journey would have been the getting sober part. Which to speak to exactly to your question, I think the hardest part was still being around friends that were still drinking and partying. And that was just a way of life. I was 26 when I got sober. So my friends, yeah, they were getting married and settling down. But you know, the weekend barbecues were still happening, and there was still a lot of drinking going on around me. And I really still, of course, in early sobriety, you know, I wanted to fit in, right, like, part of an alcoholic trait overall, I guess says like, what you hear a lot of people talk about, like, I didn't fit in, like I never fit in, I never fit in as a kid. Right. And so getting sober and being like, really different now. Like, it's just obvious, it's glaring. I don't drink so now I'm like really separated, but still trying to fit in with that world and those people. And it took me probably a couple of years to really kind of say, You know what, I'm just it's for me, like I'm just not comfortable in those situations. And not because I think I'm going to drink. It's not it wasn't that it was it different, you know, sobriety carries with it a different energy or wavelength or something where we're seeking just a little something a little bit differently in life, than maybe some other people that aren't forced to have to do this work. Like I always say, I'm no better than anybody else because I seek a sober spiritual way of life. My life depends on it all the growth I do, it's not like, oh, hey, I'm this really big, brave person. It's like, if I don't look at this stuff and do this, I'm gonna die. Right, so, um, and then I've just become really kind of addicted to it. That's, are you surprised? Because we never do that. We never change one thing for another.

Melissa Ebken  10:28  
So Amanda, is it fair to say that you had to a big struggle in your sobriety was that you had to figure out who you were as a sober person?

Amanda  10:38  
Yes, 100%. And finding my identity and that exactly, that actually has been being the most uncomfortable place for me in sobriety, when I've hit these points of intense emotional responses to life. And I've had three major emotional mental, or whatever they want to call it, break downs in recovery, where I say, I didn't just, you know, hit my knees, I fell to the floor, like took me out. And most of them were surrounding grief. And in those moments, you know, the biggest one about my identity, I guess, I would say is moving. So I was I'm a New Yorker. I grew up in New York. No, stop it. We know you guys didn't know we know you couldn't tell. Sounds like she's from Canada. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, one of my favorite things about her. Ok, go ahead. So 35 years New Yorker, you know, born and raised in Long Island, I went to school in upstate New York, I worked in Manhattan, I lived in Brooklyn. So I've been all over New York, it's just who I am. And when I moved to Colorado, that was a huge identity crisis for me. Because I had no idea how much I relied on my New York-ness or just the familiarity of where I lived, and the customs and the culture and the way people act and behave. And just everything about the place, right? I had taken on so much of that. And I think maybe that's just human, I think we've we root in a place and then it becomes who we are. And when I moved to Colorado, I was just stripped of all that. I was just this like, naked, raw, vulnerable person. And it was like, who am I and I was nine years sober at the time. And I still didn't know who I was. And it was it. That was a very, I was here for about a year. And then that's when I kind of had a break down. And I had to rebuild myself, but really not even rebuild what I had, but create something new. And I finally was able to say like, Okay, what who are you? Like, what do you really like to do? What is really your favorite color? What's really your favorite food, like simple things like that, right? I had to like figure out and just become comfortable in loving myself enough and feeling enough self worth to say yeah, those things are valuable. You're valuable because of who you are. Not because you're trying to be like that person or this person and that person, but because of who Amanda is in your spirit. And then you know, my character who do I who do l, who do I want to be? I wasn't even the things that I want it to be yet, right. It was like, well, I really want to be like compassionate. I really want to be a woman of grace and of love. And I want people to feel comfortable when they're around me. You know, like I was able to, like, totally redefine myself. So it was so painful, but such a blessing. Like that's the only way I grow is through pain.

Melissa Ebken  13:40  
Sure. And Ginny, what about you? What was your big uncomfortable in your journey to sobriety?

Ginny  13:47  
Oh my gosh, there was so much uncomfortable but I think never being in that big of a place of shame. I think and also just being in that spot of realizing and coming to a realization that you need to ask for help like this thought of I have I can't do this by myself like I can't do this and I was the one who you know in the parts where I really became like unwell with my drinking it was all managing anxiety like every bit of it all of it you know so it's like coming to this realization and the I don't know just that place where you can go. You're so far from yourself or the person that you've well like we're talking about what I had to come to realize too I didn't truly know a huge part of who I was either you know, because it was always such a an anesth an anesthetic that I had like it was something I could always use to just quiet that brain or so I thought right quiet the brain down calm the anxiety. Feel cool around other people like not feel like an outsider not feel like I don't fit. Yeah, so coming to this realization and and acceptance. So that part where you're that you used to be the person, this happens to a lot of people not not, this didn't just happen to me. I mean, I'm, I never missed a day of work I never, you know, I was a mom, there was a lot of people I, I look at now it's like, you know, you put people in danger. But I wasn't like someone under the bridge, like with a paper bag. I was like doing well, and all the things. So it's not always, it's not always a person who you think that might be struggling with addiction or alcoholism. And I was definitely one of those people where like, towards the end of it, there was just a lot of hiding. And no one really knew how much I was using it to like manage my own anxiety and being able to just function. So coming to that realization, and acceptance of like, I can't do this by myself. This that shame wall you build because you, you don't want to be in that position like you don't you as angry as somebody could be at you. You're 10 times more disgusted, like every day when you're at that point where it gets that bad. So um, that and then yeah, just that super unaligned distance from myself. You know, it was like that was super challen. And that was almost a scary thing. Because you're almost you're you don't remember who you were or who you are, you don't know who you are. And yeah, having that whole thing of who am I going to be without this synthetic armor that I've had, like, it wasn't really armor, but it sure I was convinced it was you know, and there were times where it did work that way. So to know that I that armor was not going to be there anymore was like that was a and to be accepting of that of like, Alright, well let's, we're probably going to have to feel some things and dig down and, you know, face something, that's the other part of it. I think, still, that's still a challenge for me. You know, I'm six years, like I said, going six years in December. And I'm just last week I had this event where I just had stuff pulled out of me, like I thought was healed. I'm like, that is good. I'm so over it. Meanwhile, uh, fast forward a whole Fredo crying like, what is this? You know, all this pain that I didn't know, was there? So I think, yeah, that balance of finding the courage or, or trying still or having to figure out how you're going to find courage to continue to dig down deep inside and not be afraid and keep working through the things that have caused us trauma or pain in our lives prior to this. So yeah, I think it was it was all of that.

Melissa Ebken  17:37  
Wow, you know, I'm pretty close with someone who gave up smoking. And that's a much different experience than becoming sober, for sure. But this person expressed that it wasn't just getting over the nicotine, but it was the ways that smoking functioned in her life. It was an excuse to step outside and just get a breather to get away from whomever or whatever situation and grab a few minutes by herself. It was one of those ways that she she said when she quit smoking, she had to figure out how to define boundaries, how to guard her space and herself in a new way. Because she'd never had done that before. She would just always step out and get a cigarette when things got uncomfortable. So what I see in her story, and and what both of you are saying is that so many times that anxiety comes up and it's all about identity. Who are we? Exactly. How do we stay in our skin, in the company we're in or in the place that we're in, in the moment?

Amanda  18:47  
Yes, exactly. Like Ginny used the word anesthetized, like that's exactly what it was, it was a big hole like a social lubricant. Yeah. Now you know, I can go to those if I have a good reason for being there. And I really want to be to celebrate and you know, go to the barbecue or go to the place like I don't shield myself or hide some place where there's alcohol if I have good reason being there. So now yes, redefining who I am and showing up as my true self because I don't have that mask hiding behind the alcohol, you know, because I just yeah, it's crazy to think about that, like who I was, then in those situations, and then who I am, what a what a blessing recovery is. 

Ginny  19:27  
It's really it really is. I was going to mention too. I've heard from many people, right? And all of us for whatever our addiction is, it's all like dopamine related, right? All of us on that dopamine hunt. And I have heard that nicotine is actually it might be single handedly like the hardest thing to quit. So even though alcohol is different, I have heard it's harder to kick nicotine than it is heroin. So your friends did yeah, it just did. I heard that too. Yeah. If you just don't have the same you know for us like oh those of was that it was alcohol, you know, people you knew and we were too drunk. And with cigarettes, it's like, that's never going to change any of the situation like, as it's happening, yeah. So you're able to do it more. So you're the physical addiction of it I've heard is relentless. So for your friend to do that. It's incredible. That's amazing.

Melissa Ebken  20:19  
So for anyone out there who is struggling with us, one feel seen, truly seen, because what you're doing is so hard. It's so flippin hard because of the chemical stuff that's happening, but also the emotional and spiritual stuff that is happening, that you have to rebuild and redefine and reconstruct in this journey.

Amanda  20:42  
Totally, totally. And you can do it. And yes, there. If we can do it, you can do it. Believe me. Yeah. We're here to tell ya. Yeah. Yeah, if we can do it, you can do it. But it's also, it's like never alone. You know, it's not something to alone. And then also just to have a lot of hope about getting to know who the person is that you are without. It's exciting. It is exciting. And there is there is something even bigger about that, of finally be like, oh, so this is who I am yet. So yeah, and it's a happy life. It's a joyful life. And it's way more fulfilled. So keep at it. Any of you out there listening, right? Because it's definitely worth it. And you're not alone. For sure. And you keep growing through the whole process. Like when I stopped drinking the same week, I started running, like, that's when I became a runner, right? And then I started slowly, like, Oh, I think I might like to bake. I started baking, right? Oh, I think I love flowers. Maybe I should try gardening, then I editing you know, so I just who I am today, took a long time to culminate and then there's still so much more, right. And then once you do one thing, and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, I could do that. I, you know, I have enough confidence in myself that I could try that thing, right. And then that's like a reference for the next thing, you'd say? Like, I just started drum lessons a year and a half ago. You know, I've been sober a while it took me that long to say like, I think I might be able to do this. You know, let's just try it. Just have the courage to try it. 

Ginny  22:10  
Don't let her talk it down. She's good.

Melissa Ebken  22:14  
She can keep a beat?

Amanda  22:17  
So, yeah. Yeah, you guys could do it out there and totally. And you could reach out to us too. After the show. I'm sure Melissa will put the info in the whatever.

Melissa Ebken  22:24  
Absolutely. And for sure. There are going to be links in the show notes to your book to your podcast, your websites. And what is giving you life right now? Ginny, I'll ask you first,

Ginny  22:38  
What is giving me life right now? I'm starting this new venture of starting this business on my own is definitely giving me a ton of new life. Just because I'm feeling like I'm doing something I'm feeling fulfilled in the sense that my time I feel like I'm using my time well, with a gift, I didn't know that I had you know, it was just or would enjoy it as much as I do. It's just, we, you know, bringing bringing furniture back to life. But I'm really getting to understand and appreciate and be a part of some of these organizations of people that are that second chance concept, that idea that we all deserve a second chance. Everything deserves a second chance. An old piece of furniture deserves a second chance. And I think I think I found a lot of healing and a lot of therapy in doing furniture because it reminds me, a lot of me. It reminds me a lot of every recovering addict or alcoholic I know because there's some of the greatest people I've ever known in life ever. Could trust them with anything. They're strong, they're built well, you can count on them. But we all go through some of these stages, sometimes where our exterior is, you know, it's not our best. However, it's not defining who we are underneath. So you find these old pieces of furniture that people are like, Oh, it's so scratched on the top and it's so like, I can't even take it anymore. You know, like just pick it up. It's going to the dump. And it's you know, some like mid century modern 1967 dresser that is built better. The bones of it are stronger and build better than anything that would come out now. It just needs some rehab. It needs some help. It needs some attention to bring it back to that. So stepping away, I've worked in sales. I was in the corporate world for 18 years, you know, and it was kind of a big jump, a big leap and it's an adventure but I definitely feel myself growing and I feel it's for the first time ever I feel like my days are being spent in a way where I'm around more for my kids where I might be leaving something here on this earth that's not just for me, you know, maybe something decent something good and helping just serving others and and and showing up to be myself, you know, again, I think it's probably, I'm somebody who I'm an introvert, kind of not really, I'm an extrovert like crazy, but I'm like wondering what they call that when you're like an extroverted introvert, there's times since being sober, I've realized I do need my alone time, like I'm like ugh, and I've never felt more, I guess comfortable in my skin than I have sitting in a garage and just painting, quietly, listening to music. I'm generally a very, like, ah, get out there interacting with people person. And I felt like I was finally at a calm spot, you know, doing painting furniture, bringing it back to life. So I'm grateful for that. That's bringing me life because I'm in my mid 40s. And I didn't think I'd find a passion for something like that, that could potentially change the trajectory, you know, of my path altogether. Like, I'm not in traffic, I'm not driving, you know, to downtown Denver, like in rush hour, and just crazy. I don't know, busy, busy, insane all the time I go, I feel like I'm living a little more life. And my perspective on things has just shifted with that we've had some losses in our family recently of really great people. And that has also helped to shift that just reevaluation of what's important. And you know, the time we have and how we spend it and dealing with the wounds we have, so they don't interfere with the time we have. And yeah, those are that's, I would say that those are the things bringing me life right now. Beautiful journey. Yeah. I love how the light guys see the lights coming out of the top of you guys like that special effect the guy just like this.

Melissa Ebken  25:20  
Love it. It took hours to make sure that happened. Right? Yeah, like so. So Amanda, what's giving you life right now?

Amanda  26:54  
Um, well, definitely my my book. And when the people really feel the message and they're reaching out to me and telling me how much it you know, means to them that they see themselves in my story, that it's giving them the courage to deal with some of the issues that they've just kind of been pushing under the rug for years. And they're saying, I think it's time now to look at this. And that, like I'm providing guidance and a path forward in a non scary way. Like it's not so intimidating. It's like this is available and accessible for you if you want this healing, you know, and more so than just like that my friends and people that are reaching out, it's their kids, like, I had a book launch party couple weeks ago, here in Colorado, and like, two days later, my friend texted me. She goes, you know, I was in the car. I was having a really rough day. She struggles with some mental illness stuff. She goes, some really rough day she goes, and my son, he's like, maybe nine or 10. He said, Mom we'll be spending the rest of our lives protecting your fragile life. Where did you hear that? And he said, Amanda. I love that. And I was like, when did I even say that? Like, as I was talking, I guess I said something along those lines. I don't know. I love it. And then another friend's daughter is like, I want to be a writer like you and I grew up Miss Amanda, you know, and it's like, I could never imagine in a million years that like anybody would want to emulate who I who I used to be. Right. Yeah. So now it's like, just coming into this next chapter of birthing a new, yeah, Amanda and like, right, because our experiences shape us and all that. So that gives me like, definitely new life. And then I feel like I'm I just recently did some I do that hypnotherapy. It's called Rapid Resolution Therapy. And it's extremely, like, helpful and efficient, like the word because it's three sessions. It's rapid resolution, and it rewires your neural pathways. So that is extremely potent beneficial for trauma, especially because trauma we know is lodged in the brain and talking about trauma and reliving trauma does not heal trauma. So I've been doing some of that I did some on my grief from the traumatic the loss of my brother was very traumatic. He overdosed on drugs five years ago and I got that call and I didn't realize up until like a year or two ago like how much that really affected me. So I did some work on that. And then recently, I just went back into do some of that around my sexual trauma that I had as a kid. So I walked out of that appointment like so free like I was crying on the way home. I called my husband I was like, I never felt more free in my life like I'm shedding, shedding, right? I'm shedding all these things and it's all because also now I have to show up like what I say in that book has to be true, right? Like I have to live with integrity. And if, and I never, ever claim to say that I have any of this stuff licked. It's a constant work in progress right. I don't have all your answers. And I definitely say numerous times, I'm still growing and learning with you. But if I say I'm doing that, I have to continue learning and growing with you, right, and looking at what it comes up. So I recently did that. And I felt like a new person after that. And, you know, to maintain it, I have to do my meditation and I have to do I have to run and I have to go to, you know, I go to meetings, and I have to, like, do stuff that like, keeps prayer, like I have to do all the stuff, or else it really quickly, I don't know, if it's the addict brain, I don't know what it is, but it very quickly goes away. So I have to, if I want to keep that new life, that sense of rebirth, of optimism, of hope of healing, I have to practice these things like every single day. And that's how I mai I maintain that new sense of life.

Melissa Ebken  31:05  
So what message would you like to leave the listeners with today? 

Ginny  31:13  
I don't know, I would say, first of all, that in any situation, or any phase of growth that anyone's in, just know, there's someone else thats probably very familiar with it as you're in it, or someone who's been through it. And that building these connections, again, with one another is going to be super amazing for all of us to be able to continue to grow. And to maybe even when it's a little bit uncomfortable, you know, let ourselves be vulnerable to make those connections with people we've become, we've had a few years of being physically separate, or being emotionally separate and politically separate, and all the things separate. So like, give yourself some permission to be vulnerable and make those connections again, with people even if it's like, you know, this amazing podcast and communities like this, there's a bunch of us out there. And yeah, we're all in it together. 

Amanda  32:10  
I would also add to that, healing is possible. You know, like, we are constant work in progress. And I look at it like a spectrum, right? Like, I started out here, you know, those years ago when I got sober, you know, like, I'm a little bit more on the spectrum. And I can acknowledge that and appreciate that, and feel that sense of achievement or its fulfillment, right? And say, You know what, I like I'm okay, like, I am, okay. I always want to strive and be a little bit better, but right now I'm okay. And you're okay, exactly the way you are, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, there might be messages telling you that they're, old messages, childhood wounds and all that kind of stuff that the tapes are playing, that you need to stay stuck, or you need to stay in pain. That's not true. I'm gonna tell you that that's not true. And that healing is possible. And like Ginny said, there are I mean, we're living in a time now where healing is just so what's the word I'm looking for? Not just possible, but like, like, it's okay. Like, therapy will be no longer this big, like taboo thing, you know, like, it's available to you. It's encouraged. That's the word. Healing is encouraged today, so take advantage of that. And again, like we're here for you too, but there's plenty of organizations, doctors, you know, professionals, groups that are there whether it's grief therapy, or it's quitting smoking or it's whatever you've gone through, sexual abuse, whatever it is that you've gone through, there are like Ginny said, people who want to help you. People want to help you.

Melissa Ebken  33:49  
Beautiful sentiments. And folks if you want to spend some time, well check out the Soul Rising Podcast, and Ginny, Amanda, thank you both for being here today.

Ginny  33:59  
Thank you for having us. 

Amanda  34:00  
Thank you so much for having us. 

Ginny  34:02  
We hope that you'd join us on our podcast. 

Amanda  34:04  
Yes,

Melissa Ebken  34:05  
I'd love it. 

Amanda  34:06  
Alright,

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